Tuesday
May062008
Video Games
Tuesday, May 6, 2008 at 11:00PM
As you may have noted when I bailed on writing the last post in favor of playing GTA 4, I have recently gotten an Xbox 360.
by louder
I've been a somewhat casual video game fan since I got my Super Nintendo way back in the day. In addition to the Super Nintendo, I've also had an N64, Game Gear, and original Xbox. Throughout that time a couple things have remained constant in gamers lives since the earliest days.
by miskan
Firstly, video games are viewed as a less valuable and less socially acceptable use of time than reading, watching a movie, or virtually anything form of media.
by Little Lushie
Telling someone that you are staying in tonight to play Halo 3 will garner a much less positive reaction from most people than saying you are staying in to read the latest Harry Potter book. Frequently a video game is not even accepted as a valid reason for abstaining from a social event (as opposed to a book or movie), and attempting to use it as an excuse is rejected as insubstantial reason for your non-attendance.
by Supercraig and J
And secondly, video games which contain any violent or sexual content are viewed as somehow more dangerous to the delicate social fabric than other forms of media.
by *n3wjack's world in pixels
The latest iteration of the Grand Theft Auto franchise, GTA 4, has received a massive amount of media attention for violence and sex, which is orders of magnitude less explicit, less shocking, and less realistic than that found in Eastern Promises, a movie on the same subject which received Oscar nominations for it's content.
by stovak
And the allegations that video game violence is somehow more conducive to fostering violence in viewers than other forms of media is patently false after a quick glance at the rough statistics. Video games containing violence of one kind or another are now played by a very substantial portion of the population as opposed to virtually no one 20 years ago. Despite this massive increase in exposure to violent interactive content, we have not seen a corresponding increase in violent crime. On the contrary, violent crime has actually decreased substantially over the same time period. Of course the above is just my off-hand analysis.
The Wikipedia entry on the subject shows this:
And:
by Bobasonic
In my opinion, the real reason that video games have this reputation, both as creators of violence and unacceptable diversions from real life, is that the people playing them are still in the minority and the remainder of the population doesn't take the time to understand their appeal. Throughout recent history there are many examples of the old guard rejecting new social trends. Jazz, swing, rock, punk, rap, movies, and even the internet up until very recently, were viewed as having negative effects on those who chose to embrace these things. And these things becoming mainstream did not bring the world to an end.
by Midnight-digital
I think it is changing. People in every segment of society play video games now, and slowly it's becoming a more accepted form of entertainment. I just think that it's funny that despite so much historical evidence to the contrary, those who fear what they do not understand will continuously write-off new trends as morally questionable or outright dangerous.
by Merrick Brown
Part of my inspiration for this post was Ten Golden Rules of the Anti-Video Game Lobby, it's clearly biased, but entertaining.
UPDATE: Some Harvard researchers just released a study finding that violent video games do not beget violence. Turns out children aren't mindless automatons. Who knew? I posted about it here.
by louder
I've been a somewhat casual video game fan since I got my Super Nintendo way back in the day. In addition to the Super Nintendo, I've also had an N64, Game Gear, and original Xbox. Throughout that time a couple things have remained constant in gamers lives since the earliest days.
by miskan
Firstly, video games are viewed as a less valuable and less socially acceptable use of time than reading, watching a movie, or virtually anything form of media.
by Little Lushie
Telling someone that you are staying in tonight to play Halo 3 will garner a much less positive reaction from most people than saying you are staying in to read the latest Harry Potter book. Frequently a video game is not even accepted as a valid reason for abstaining from a social event (as opposed to a book or movie), and attempting to use it as an excuse is rejected as insubstantial reason for your non-attendance.
by Supercraig and J
And secondly, video games which contain any violent or sexual content are viewed as somehow more dangerous to the delicate social fabric than other forms of media.
by *n3wjack's world in pixels
The latest iteration of the Grand Theft Auto franchise, GTA 4, has received a massive amount of media attention for violence and sex, which is orders of magnitude less explicit, less shocking, and less realistic than that found in Eastern Promises, a movie on the same subject which received Oscar nominations for it's content.
by stovak
And the allegations that video game violence is somehow more conducive to fostering violence in viewers than other forms of media is patently false after a quick glance at the rough statistics. Video games containing violence of one kind or another are now played by a very substantial portion of the population as opposed to virtually no one 20 years ago. Despite this massive increase in exposure to violent interactive content, we have not seen a corresponding increase in violent crime. On the contrary, violent crime has actually decreased substantially over the same time period. Of course the above is just my off-hand analysis.
The Wikipedia entry on the subject shows this:
Most studies, however, reach the conclusion that violence in video games is not causally linked with aggressive tendencies. This was the conclusion of a 1999 study by the U.S. government, prompting Surgeon General David Satcher to say, "We clearly associate media violence to aggressive behavior. But the impact was very small compared to other things. Some may not be happy with that, but that’s where the science is."[3] A meta-analysis by psychologist Jonathan Freedman, who reviewed over 200 published studies and found that the majority did not find a causal link, also reached this conclusion.[4]
And:
A US Secret Service study found that only 12 percent of those involved in school shootings were attracted to violent video games, while 24 percent read violent books and 27 percent were attracted to violent films.[25]
by Bobasonic
In my opinion, the real reason that video games have this reputation, both as creators of violence and unacceptable diversions from real life, is that the people playing them are still in the minority and the remainder of the population doesn't take the time to understand their appeal. Throughout recent history there are many examples of the old guard rejecting new social trends. Jazz, swing, rock, punk, rap, movies, and even the internet up until very recently, were viewed as having negative effects on those who chose to embrace these things. And these things becoming mainstream did not bring the world to an end.
by Midnight-digital
I think it is changing. People in every segment of society play video games now, and slowly it's becoming a more accepted form of entertainment. I just think that it's funny that despite so much historical evidence to the contrary, those who fear what they do not understand will continuously write-off new trends as morally questionable or outright dangerous.
by Merrick Brown
Part of my inspiration for this post was Ten Golden Rules of the Anti-Video Game Lobby, it's clearly biased, but entertaining.
UPDATE: Some Harvard researchers just released a study finding that violent video games do not beget violence. Turns out children aren't mindless automatons. Who knew? I posted about it here.
Reader Comments (21)
"its" when it's possessive!
But otherwise I'm on the same page as you.
I don't even enjoy the GTA series at all, but I argue for it. I also argue that video games are an extremely powerful emotional medium that is underrated and overlooked.
Serves me right for not running it through grammar check.
Ok, the number of violent crimes might have gone down while the number of gamers has gone up. But let's focus on the main population playing video games - ie young males. While violent crimes committed by 30 old males might have gone down, the number of young males engaging in extremely violent acts (colombine, virginia tech, etc) has gone up in the past two decades. Though still rare, these things were virtually non-existent in the past - when violent games were not so prevalent.
Two - the role of women in this game and even in the ads.. All I have to say is: if the men get to be the heroes with all this guts and glory in this game, could the women be anything more than passive victims or strippers? Or that would be way too far off reality to be believable I guess.
Hey Joey, love that you're talking about video games as a whole based on just a few examples.
While female representation could stand a facelift in video games, it's not much different than the movie industry.
In fact, video games are likely MORE equal because a lot of the men are sexified and stereotyped as well.
Take Devil May Cry for instance, sure the female characters wear nothing and have ridiculously large breasts, but not only do they kick just as much ass as the male leads, but the male leads are not any better off. They don't wear shirts and are also abnormally good looking.
God of War is another example.
What about Skies of Arcadia? Aika is just as powerful and capable as Vyse, the other lead. She's also portrayed respectfully.
Tales of Symphonia features a number of strong female leads.
In Ocarina of Time, sure Zelda is captured, but she also spends seven years as a badass ninja.
Better than Link who spent that time in a coma like a pansy.
So kindly do your research before bringing false judgements.
Even in its infancy, video games are far more self-aware and progressive than other popular mediums.
And didn't Eric state that WHEN massive violet acts happened, music with violent lyrics was more often the cause?
But it also looks like you WERE just talking about GTA.
Still! GTA is extremely self-aware and subjects the males as much as the women. It doesn't change the world much from what it already is.
Ethan knows more video games than me.
I am but a NOOB in his eyes
Ethan, decent reply. I will fully admit that I'm not an expert on video games. But I'm pretty sure I'm still allowed to voice an opinion. So first of all, just because the movie industry also has stereotypes, doesn't make things awesome for both cases. It highlights a disconcerting pattern.
You do highlight a decent point about stereotypes with men as well. But from my limited experience it seems that these features are usually exaggerated strength, exaggerated good looks - features that are only an element to their character. The exaggerated sexual features of women characters, however, is their whole character in many cases.
You bring a few examples of 'more progressive features', but I do not see those games being as popular as GTA . If the gaming industry was so progressive and self-aware, I'm not sure how you could defend the ads of this game or how popular it's been.
Well done in highlighting some tenuous elements of my points, but don't get too carried away there my friend. If you think GTA 'subjects' the males as much as the women, you need to do your own research.
Once I see a guy sucking a lolipop and wearing a banana hammock as a billboard ad for the game, then we'll talk about equality.
opinion. And I'm certainly allowed to have a counter-opinion when I feel the first opinion is under-informed.
But you bring up the fact that I didn't make a few things clear, and I do apologize for that.
I never mentioned that I am definitely not glorifying the stereotypes. While I did not say that it would "make things awesome for both cases" like you suggest, I did make the false assumption that my stance would be clear. Believe it or not, I'm an equalist and argue for male and female rights and fair treatment. I agree that stereotypes stretching across different media highlights a disconcerting pattern and while I did mention that female representation could use a facelift in games, I didn't go on to say I could mean it as an understatement in regards to the world in general. Perhaps I should have gone on to say that, so I apologize.
I'm glad you mention that your counter-argument is from your "limited experience" because that seems to play a part in the underwhelming case you make.
Let's return to the example of Devil May Cry, (a very popular series with four iterations). The female and male characters have equal depth (or lack thereof). But while the females' physical appearances are wildly sexualized, the male's exaggeration isn't as mild as just "strength" and "good looks". While there isn't really a clear equal to "boobs" to point at, perfect bodies, defined abs, perfect height, hair, toned arms. These are all sexual symbols for a male and everything that can be ramped up IS ramped up. Dante even runs around without a shirt in DMC2. Hell, Kratos never has a shirt on in ANY of the God of War games, another extremely popular series. Kratos is actually a demi-god and so also has a perfect, unattainable, sexified body. Perhaps because you and I are male, it's sometimes more difficult to point out when men are sex objects.
Continuing that point, you go on to mention that the sexualization of women extends to their whole character in many cases. Disregarding that the "many cases" you mention are many cases from your personal pool of data (which you admit is limited), let's look at some of my examples. Going back to Kratos, the perfect, sexualized god-man. What is his character? A jealous, blood-thirsty personification of testosterone. Even Link from the legendary Zelda series, a great-looking guy with incredible strength and technique. What is his personality? A silent type who does what it takes to get the job done. A "true man". One dimensional. Stereotypical. I'm not lifting it up, I'm just saying that characters need a facelift in general, not just the girls.
Going back to my examples from my first post, while none have them have outsold the GTA series (the fourth best-selling game franchise of all time), I mention Zelda/Sheik from Ocarina of Time. That happens to be the most popular iteration in the ninth best-selling game franchise of all time.
Tales of Symphonia is a million seller from a franchise in the top one hundred best-selling game franchises of all time, and Skies of Arcadia is perhaps less popular but certainly well-known.
But back to GTA. The start of this debate. The start of so many debates. Perhaps GTA doesn't subject males as much as woman from a purely sexual standpoint, but that wasn't entirely what I was refering to, and I should have made that clear.
GTA is an exaggeration of what already exists. I need do no more research as you suggest. Have you been on Shuter street? Prostitutes exist, did you know? Women wear skimpy clothes, did you know? Women like sex, did you know? GTA doesn't make anything up. GTA doesn't pull anything out of its ass. In GTA IV, Niko Bellic loses a bit of his morality and a part of himself when he does the crazy things he can do in GTA. He's aware that he lives in a ridiculous world and that he's just adding to it. He's an immigrant and he's adding to the stereotype. He's being subjected to a role that sometimes exists in the real world. Just like the females. Not every girl is a prostitute, but they exist, and that's the setting for GTA.
Children shouldn't be playing it, no. But I believe that the audience that GTA is INTENDED for is old enough to recognize the content of GTA for what it is. And it's not just out to make killing fun to encourage it, but to laugh at it. To know that it's ridiculous and to be glad we're NOT the type to go off and do the things Niko does. That's why we have Niko do them. Because Niko also suffers the consequences.
So GTA doesn't hide what it is in the ads. It would be irresponsible for them to.
Oh, and if you're looking for "a guy sucking a lolipop and wearing a banana hammock as a billboard ad for the game". Just look at the God of War ads with Kratos (the hyper-sexualized guy from before, remember?) in barely more than a loin cloth and two flaming swords.
I appreciate your articulate arguments, but they are old, frustrating, and full of unjustified conclusions.
We agree that the stereotypes should be rectified, but I think fingers should be pointed at many, many more places before they get pointed at GTA.
And remember, I don't even enjoy that series.
I copy/pasted and missed the first bit of my first paragraph:
"Joey, decent reply. You are certainly allowed to voice an opinion. And I'm certainly allowed to have a counter-opinion when I feel the first opinion is under-informed.
But you bring up the fact that I didn't make a few things clear, and I do apologize for that."
Wow. Are you guys competing for longest comment ever?
And if so, Joey, are you going to let Ethan beat you that badly in word count? Cause he destroyed you, 912 to 215. You gotta step up.
If word count is all Ethan has on me, I think I'm good. At this point, I cannot strech out my knowledge of video games any further. Now I have to get my virgin gamer hands dirty, and wait for the next opportunity.
Oh at least admit proper defeat!
You clearly have no clue about women. Well at least those who aren't represented in gamer reality, ie the "prostitutes" and "women who wear skimpy clothes".
Otherwise my comment would have been understood as proposing a future challenge, rather than a defeat. But I don't blame you for being impatient and reacting impulsively, I hear videogames have that effect.
Can't we all just get along?
I clearly have no clue about women?
I really wish you wouldn't make a habit of reaching such drastic conclusions based on minimal evidence.
I was merely being playful.
BUT since you decided to go the route of attack (again, LOVING the assumptions), I am capable of biting back.
So let's continue to point out your frustrating arrogance and uneducated snobbery:
Since my comment was meant to be playful, you may be surprised to find out that patience is one of my strong suits. In fact, the boring point you so snidely sneer at the end ofyour comment is not only more appropriate to the way you're acting, but it doesn't even apply to me.
The games I play are primarily adventure and role-playing. Games that are not impulsive based. Rather, they stimulate the brain and senses.
But let's continue on your horrid insinuation that I must be an idiot when it comes to gender, and my entire personality comes from video games and is therefore shallow like the medium.
So in this funny little world of yours in which video games don't count, what does?
Books?
Been reading all my life. English was my best class, have been reading books far beyond my expected level for years.
If not books, music?
I'm classically trained on piano and have been for 15 years. Bach is my inspiration and muse.
What else?
I frequent Stratford (for Shakespeare, not the musicals), I write competent poetry, I watch and discuss movies, and I back up all my arguments with supported fact.
So maybe this wasn't clear, Joey: when I say I'm an equalist, I'm a equalist. My knowledge and passion on gender issues didn't stem from and certainly isn't restricted to Grand Theft Auto.
I'm reacting impulsively now because my knowledge and values were challenged without just cause and you went on the attack.
So I don't need you to admit defeat because I don't need trophys, but I need you to apologize.
And sorry for the drama, Eric, but it's far too much fun.
Indeed. I was also aiming for the fun of the drama and off-hand baseless attack here and there. Although I've been told that my sarcasm is not always easy to pick up. I'll work on adding more smiley faces then. But really, it was all in good fun. So really, stop getting all emotional and acting like such a girl.
...... :) ........
I'm told the same thing!
You wanna go out sometime?
Haha I'm sure she'd be honored, if she wasn't going out with whoever it is that writes this blog.
But that guy's a smartass, so maybe she's looking for someone who doesn't spend his time writing blog entries instead of hanging out with her.
Hahaha
T'is true, I do happen to have a pretty big crush on someone at the moment.
But Ethan, we'll always have this video game post - the online tension was hot.
Whhhhaaaaaaa?!
What a twist!
You were holding that one back, Eric!
S'okay, I've got a crush of my own, and she wouldn't be too pleased if I gained another girlfriend.
But who knows? Maybe one day Eric and I will be the new happy couple.
Oh I went there.